Hope in the Hard Stuff: Talking About Suicide with Compassion

This month, Calmerry launches its first-ever podcast, “The Calmerry 15” — a short-format mental health series designed to talk about therapy, mental health, lived experiences, and real stories to break down stigma and normalize mental health conversations.

We’ve teamed up, to bring important conversations to you in a convenient 15-minute, bite-sized format, with:

Lisa Sugarman, mental health advocate, founder of The HelpHUB™, author, 3x suicide loss survivor, and crisis counselor with The Trevor Project.

Gretchen Schoser, an award-winning podcast host and founder of Schoser Talent and Wellness Solutions.

You can listen to 1 Episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, watch it on YouTube, or read the transcript in this article.

Enjoy the reads and share them with those who need it most!

Opening the Conversation

Albina:

Hi everyone, and welcome to the September edition of the Calmerry Mental Health Sit-Down Series.

This month, we are holding space for a conversation that’s often surrounded by silence, suicide. Suicide is something we are often afraid to talk about, but silence adds to the stigma. In this conversation, we are opening up about the power of compassionate language, how to support someone in crisis, and why lived experience can help save lives.

If you’ve ever felt unsure of what to say or afraid of saying the wrong thing, you’re not alone and this conversation is for you. Let’s talk about how to show up, listen, and live with empathy.

Why Words Matter in Mental Health Conversations

Lisa Sugarman:

I’m Lisa Sugarman, founder of the Help Hub here with Gretchen Schoser, founder of Schoser Talent and Wellness Solutions, and we’re taking 15 minutes to talk about the things that matter most to your mental health, one honest sit-down at a time. And as we said, this month is Suicide Prevention Month. We just want to talk about something that most people shy away from, and that’s how we talk about suicide.

The language that we use, stories that we tell, the support that we offer or don’t offer each other can make a huge, huge difference in someone’s life. And today we’re going to unpack how to have those conversations with empathy and honesty and hope. So let’s start with something simple, but very powerful.

Let’s start with language and why words matter. G?

Gretchen Schoser:

Oh, yeah, the words, words matter because if you respond to someone with the wrong words, it’s almost more hurtful than not saying anything at all. You know, it’s like in my case, I have gone from saying “committed suicide” to “they took their life” or “they died by suicide”.

There’s a lot of connotation between committed and taking because it’s not a selfish act. And so you want to be very mindful of how you approach that conversation.

Lisa Sugarman:

Absolutely.

Words matter. That’s the bottom line. And the way that we talk about things, especially things like suicide, that have so much stigma attached to it, really does shape how people feel about their own struggles or in some cases their own mental illness.

And like you said, using language like “committed suicide”, which the mental health community at large is really trying hard to move away from, is so important because it suggests criminality or wrongdoing or something illegal or immoral, which isn’t true. It’s not true. And that kind of language is exactly the thing that’s been fueling all this shame and all this silence around this subject.

So I love that you said alternatives like “died by suicide”, and it’s a small shift, right?

Gretchen Schoser:

Very small shift. But like I said, words matter because when you’re approaching someone whose loved one took their life by suicide, they’re already in a really fragile state. So when you approach it, you want to give loving condolences and not…

Lisa Sugarman:

Accusatory.

Gretchen Schoser:

Not accusatory. That’s the word I was looking for. Yeah.

Lisa Sugarman:

It centers around the reality that so many people miss, which is that suicide is the result of deep, deep pain and mental illness and depression and potentially anxiety and all of those things that we don’t see, that we don’t hear. So it’s not really a choice. Person who is contemplating or acting on suicidal ideation is doing it because they don’t feel like they have any other choice.

And changing language doesn’t erase the pain that someone’s feeling, but it creates a gateway for compassion. And that’s what people have to feel. That’s what helps people who are in that headspace.

And that’s what they need most when they’re in crisis.

Creating Compassionate Change in Everyday Conversations

Gretchen Schoser:

And the other part to that too, Lisa, is if you’re talking with a group of friends and let’s just say that the spouse or partner or friend isn’t in your friend group when you’re talking about it, if someone says “they committed suicide”, help change that conversation to say, “no, they died by suicide” or “they took their own life”. Just really try hard to remove that word “committed”.

Lisa Sugarman:

I’m so glad you said that because people are afraid to do that. I know myself having understood why we need to make that shift when I’m in situations where I have conversations with people and someone will say that through no fault of their own. That’s what we were taught to say.

So that’s why collectively we still say it, but I get a very, very deep and visceral reaction to it when I hear it because I know that it’s just perpetuating the stigma. So that’s such a good point that we can always find a really gentle way of redirecting someone. And it’s not a criticism and you’re not trying to embarrass someone or shame someone.

You’re just trying to educate someone. So take them aside, say, “Hey, listen, maybe you didn’t know. Maybe you weren’t aware that there is really this movement away from using this language as a way of changing the overall perception of this thing that we don’t like to talk about.”

What to Say When You Don’t Know What to Say

Lisa Sugarman:

So here’s a question. Here’s a question I want to ask that I think is important to bring up. “What if I say the wrong thing? What if I make it worse?” There’s truth to saying something is almost better than saying nothing.

Would you agree?

Gretchen Schoser:

Yes.

Lisa Sugarman:

Okay. So do you think that people need to be perfect in what they say when they’re holding space or giving support?

Gretchen Schoser:

No.

Just show, you know, show empathy, show that you were there supporting them. We all stumble. I’ve done it a thousand times, but you know, as long as your heart’s in the right place, you’re going to be fine.

Lisa Sugarman:

Right. It’s really, it’s about creating presence. It’s just about holding space for someone.

Think examples that we could give for someone who is thinking, oh my God, what do I actually say to someone who is dealing with this kind of loss? Just say, ‘I’ve noticed that you haven’t been yourself lately. Do you want to talk?’ It can be as simple as that. Or maybe say, “I really care about you.’ – Lead with that – ‘I really care about you. I’m here. You’re not alone. What can I do? How can I help?’

You know, and if somebody tells you maybe even that they’re thinking about suicide, it isn’t your job to fix it. Most people immediately make the assumption that they have to be the fixer.

They have to be the one to solve the problem, but you don’t. You can just simply say, “thanks for telling me. That was really brave. I really appreciate it. This must feel so heavy and so hard”, and just say, “I’m here for you. I’m here and we’ll figure out next steps together.”

It’s none of our responsibility to fix somebody else’s problem. Even if you’re going to a therapist, it’s not even your therapist’s responsibility to fix a problem. They’re there to hold space, to give resources, to maybe give you a different perspective that you couldn’t create yourself.

And it’s the same when you’re trying to talk to somebody who is struggling either with suicidal ideation or depression, or maybe they’re grieving someone who they’ve lost. It doesn’t have to be dramatic. It can just be super sensitive and super simple.

Gretchen Schoser:

And the same thing goes for me as a suicide attempt survivor. When people are talking about that, it’s not that “I tried committing suicide”, “I tried to take my life”. There’s a connotation there.

And you know what? I wasn’t committing a crime. I was trying to get out of my pain. So when somebody like a friend, a colleague, whoever, just remember that words matter in that situation also, because we’re already dealing with a lot of stuff in our own heads.

And we all realize that what we went through was not easy. But thankfully for a good chunk of us, we’re still out here thriving and surviving.

What Not to Say: Avoiding Harmful Responses

Lisa Sugarman:

Yeah, and that’s a good point to make.

It’s just about being helpful in the ways that you can be helpful. And there’s another side to that, too. There’s the side, OK, what do you say? What could you say? What would be helpful? Now let’s flip that script and talk about what doesn’t help, what will not be productive.

I know I can think of a few things like, “don’t be so dramatic”. That is the worst thing that you can say to someone because right there you’ve invalidated them completely. Or you say something like, “Oh, well, everybody else has it so much worse” or “So many other people have it so much worse. Just think positive.” OK, if it were that easy, come on. That’s not helpful in that situation.

Gretchen Schoser:

Or if somebody like for me, somebody told me to like “Suck it up, buttercup”, listen, I’d been sucking it up. That was part of the problem. That was part of the problem.

I didn’t like. I didn’t air out what was going on. People said that “I was just doing it for attention”.

Totally like, don’t say those words. Just don’t. And if you can think it, don’t say it.

Lisa Sugarman:

Yeah, and honestly, too, if you’re not sure what to say and a lot of people wouldn’t be in a really delicate situation like that, it’s OK to be honest about that and say, “Hey, I don’t know what to say, but I’m not going anywhere. I’m here.”

That in and of itself is an incredibly powerful statement because you’re saying, “Look, I’m being honest here. I don’t want to say something that will make things worse in your head, but I do want to be here. And I’m admitting that I really don’t know what you need or what to do.”

The Power of Lived Experience and Storytelling

Lisa Sugarman:

So, I think it’s important to just highlight the importance of saying the right thing, saying the wrong thing, and then just being open about not knowing what to say, but wanting to be there to support. Now, you and I also come at suicide in general, at the topic of suicide from a unique perspective.

We’re both mental health advocates. I’m a multiple survivor of suicide loss. You’re a suicide attempt survivor. You and I have got a ton of lived experience in this area.

And what you and I both know and understand deeply is that stories save lives, telling your truth, sharing your lived experience.[highlight] When we tell that story or we share that experience about our pain or our loss or the healing journey itself, we make it easier for someone else to speak up. We give someone else permission to speak up.

And that act of storytelling is like a bridge. It builds that bridge between feeling totally and completely isolated and feeling supported.

Gretchen Schoser:

It’s so true, you know, every time we share our stories, we unlock somebody else’s prison.

There may be somebody out there that you’re talking to that may be a suicide loss survivor or a suicide attempt survivor. Not everybody talks about it. For me, I talk about it because knowledge is power.

And as my mom always used to say, “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all, because those words can be very hurtful.”

Lisa Sugarman:

It’s true. And you don’t have to have a perfect ending to your story for it to have value when you share it.

It’s just that willingness to show up. It’s that willingness to be honest because somewhere someone is sitting there thinking and listening. “Oh, my gosh, that sounds like me,” or “I went through that.”

And they have that touch point where they feel validated and they all of a sudden recognize that they’re not the only one out there who may have experienced the same thing, felt the same feelings.

So that’s why it’s so important to take what we’ve experienced in our lives and put it back out into the world, because you never know who it’s going to impact.

Key Takeaways for Suicide Prevention Month

Lisa Sugarman:

So before we wrap up, we just want to leave you with a few takeaways for Suicide Prevention Month.

Gee, you’ve already said it multiple times in multiple beautiful ways, that words matter. Saying “died by suicide” instead of “committing suicide” helps reduce that stigma and it opens a space for empathy.

Number two, we don’t have to fix somebody else’s pain to be helpful. It’s just about being present, being compassionate and honest and just listening.

And that as we both know so well, lived experience has power. Sharing our story, making space for someone else’s story or experience can truly, truly be a lifeline.

So if you or someone you love is in crisis, please don’t wait. You can call or text 988 anytime, day or night, 365 days a year. And reach out to the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline for help.

So thanks for sitting down with us today. We’ll see you next month and until then, take care of you.

Looking Ahead

Albina:

Lisa and Gretchen, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom.

And next month, we’ll continue the conversation for World Mental Health Day and Mental Illness Awareness Week. We will be talking about breaking the silence around mental health diagnosis and the power of living well with one. Until then, take care of yourself and each other.

We’ll see you in October.